45. Jonathan Balcombe & Jo-Anne McArthur

In this animal-focused episode, Rick's two guests are Jonathan Balcombe and Jo-Anne McArthur. Jonathan is a world-renowned biologist, ethologist, and author of popular science books on the inner lives of animals, including Pleasurable Kingdom, Second Nature, and What a Fish Knows - a New York Times best-seller. Jo-Anne is an award-winning photojournalist, speaker, and founder of WeAnimalsMedia. She’s visited over sixty countries to document our complex relationship with animals.
As a pack, they talk about
Ethology
Animal photojournalism
“Try and try again”
How you protect what you love
Animal sentience
Animal playfulness
Things getting better AND worse
Cultural influence on meat-eating
The effects of vegetarianism
Leading by example
The ick-factor of lab-grown meat
Factory farms as conflict zones
Ad-gag laws
And trivia for plant-eaters
... You do make friends with salad.
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